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September 17, 2024
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Daf Yomi, Mourning, Excessive Mourning, And an End to Mourning

We are still within the year of mourning for the losses that began on October 7 and continue on all too many tragic days, during which many of us feel further from the rebuilding of the Beit HaMikdash than before, though many of us feel that we may be closer than ever before because of the calamities that are expected to precede the coming of the Moshiach and the rebuilding of the Beit HaMikdash.

The page of the Talmud studied around the world last Shabbat (Bava Batra 60), one week after Shabbos Nachamu, discusses excessive mourning. We know that when a person dies there are many mourning requirements in Jewish law but also limits on the mourning periods, which many Jews seem to know more about and observe more meticulously than many other laws and customs. But the Talmud discusses excesses of mourning, which may be well-meaning and even admirable in spirit, but which are forbidden by Jewish law.

The Talmud notes that when the Beit HaMikdash was destroyed for the second time there was an increase in the number of ascetics within the Jewish community who decided to limit themselves by not eating meat or drinking wine. Rabbi Yehoshua asked them why they restricted themselves in this way. They answered, “Shall we eat meat, from which offerings were sacrificed on the altar, now that there is no functioning altar? (Put another way, shouldn’t we alter our ways because of what had just happened to the altar?) Shall we drink wine, which is poured on the altar, now that there is no functioning altar?”

Rabbi Yehoshua responded, “If so, we should not eat bread either since the meal offerings that were offered on the altar have ceased.” They replied that he was correct. They would subsist on produce. He said, “But produce should also be forbidden, since the bringing of the first fruits in the Beit HaMikdash has ceased.” They said that in that case they would no longer eat the produce of the seven species from which the first fruits were brought, but they would subsist on other produce. He said, “So in that case we should not drink water since the water libation has ceased.” At that point, they were silent. There is a limit even to what well-meaning extremists can be expected to do. One person’s “extremism” may be another person’s idealism, but sometimes even extremists go too far by any reasonable standard and give well-meaning extremism within reason a bad name or “a bad taste in the mouth.”

Drinking no water can be as harmful to survival as what some people want to do from the river to the sea, God forbid.

Rabbi Yehoshua responded to the ascetics that not to mourn is impossible, but to mourn excessively is also impossible since the rabbis do not issue a decree unless a majority of the public is able to abide by it. At this point, Rabbi Yehoshua pointed out a less drastic approach. A person may plaster his [or her] house but must leave over a small amount without plaster in remembrance of the destruction of the Beit HaMikdash. We are all familiar with the smashing of a glass object at a wedding for this reason, and placing ashes on the head of the chatan at a wedding for this purpose (also mentioned here in the Talmud) but the Talmud provides some additional approaches not as well known, such as leaving out a small item on a menu or women leaving out a small item of jewelry for this purpose.

Perhaps we can take it to the next level —taking that item on the menu and sending it, or its value, to the troops fighting for Israel’ssurvival, and jewelry can also be sold and its proceeds sent to the troops and their families.

Despite all the mourning, we can take heart from the continuation of the baraita: “[A]nyone who mourns for [the Beit Hamikdash] in Jerusalem will merit and see its joy, as it says: ‘Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad with her, all who love her; exult with her in exultation, all you who mourned for her… delight from the glow of her glory…. I will extend peace to her like a river and the wealth of nations like a surging stream” (Yeshaya 66:10).


The writer appreciates and encourages those who seek to channel the urge to mourn the atrocities of October 7 and beyond into a mandate to take action. He has written, edited and/or supplemented various biographies featuring men of action on many levels.

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